Judul : Unt Health And Wellness Center
link : Unt Health And Wellness Center
Unt Health And Wellness Center
good afternoon, everyone. my name is adamalattry, i’m the president of the student government association. first of all, i’dlike to thank you all for being here. your input and feedback gives the campus carrytask force direction, so that we can ensure student, faculty and staff safety is alwaysat the forefront of our agenda. we’ll start off the town hall with a brief 15-minute presentationgiven by the chair of the campus carry task
Unt Health And Wellness Center, force, eric fritsch. i believe the presentationwill be able to answer most of your questions, so i’ll ask that you hold your questionsand comments until the very end. thank you. eric?hi. everything is rolling over there? because we are live streaming this, and then we’realso recording it, and it’ll be on the campus
carry website, so. welcome, thank you forcoming today. what the plan is, is that we’re going to give you some information about thecampus carry law requirements, about chl holders, the data that we have on chl holders, andthen also the estimated impact that we think this law will have on unt, and then kind ofopen it up for questions and answers. and just kind of before we start, we have a 23-membertask force that is assigned to basically with the task of building a draft campus carrypolicy that will go to president smatresk in the middle of december, and so just asa way of introduction of the task members that are here. task force members that arehere, we have lt. david owen from the unt police department, we have elizabeth withfrom student affairs, we have damian torres
from the multicultural center – is thatthe correct terminology for that? and you’ve already met adam, and then zane. zane snuckup in the back, he’s from the union, and then margarita venegas from urcm, universityrelations. they’re all on the task force. let me run through the presentation, as adamsaid, i think it will address some of the questions. we think it’s informative andgives us a baseline, and then we want your feedback, your questions and your comments.basically, we’ve already done that. that’s just overview of what we’re doing — introducethe task force members, we’ll overview the campus law, the campus carry law requirements,we will talk about chl holders, since those are the ones that are specifically addressedby the law, and then we’ll talk about some
data that we have from the texas departmentof public safety, and then estimated impact on unt. so what are the requirements of thelaw? a few things before we jump into some of the more detailed requirements, becausei want to make sure everybody’s got a good understanding of what the requirements are.the first thing is that this was obviously passed in our last legislative session, butit wasn’t the first time it was brought up. several legislative sessions in the past,campus carry has been brought up, it has not passed. it was passed this past legislativesession, it was signed into law by gov. abbott. it will take effect aug. 1, 2016, so therewill be a couple of things you hear me repeat several times because repetitiveness is nota bad thing when it’s a critical fact that
needs to be recognized, and that is the lawtakes effect aug. 1, 2016, and so that’s our target date. so for us as a committee,the plan is this: we draft the policy, we give it to president smatresk in the middleof december, it then goes to the board of regents for final approval in february of2016, and any amendments they want to make regarding it, and then that gives us fromfebruary 2016 to aug. 1, 2016, to then implement training and educational sessions with ourcampus community, faculty, staff and students regarding the campus carry policy on campus.so that will involve clearly risk management, unt police department, student affairs, housing,etc., and so that’s kind of the plan moving forward.what the law specifically states is this:
it allows concealed handgun license holders,so chl is what we refer to them as, to carry a concealed handgun on or about their personon campus. so that’s what the law specifically states, and again, it takes effect aug. 1,2016. there’s two terms that sometimes come along. we hear about campus carry, which iswhat we’re going to talk about today, and open carry. campus carry is concealed handgunson campus. open carry is kind of like a handgun in a holster, like you’d see a police officerdoing. open carry does become law in the state of texas jan. 1, 2016, but it will not takeplace at unt. institutions of higher education are specifically excluded by the law to allowopen carry. so open carry will not be the policy at unt. campus carry, though, doesapply to unt. and we’ll talk a little bit
about that here in a few minutes. in boldi put there that unt is going to abide by the requirements of the law. i mean therehas been chatter, i haven’t heard much yet so i don’t know if the town hall meetingsare helping or if people are planning their protests, i don’t know what’s going on,but one or the other. but there was a lot of talk initially through our web forum thatwe should fight this, that we shouldn’t allow guns on campus, that we should fightit in the courts, etc., and that’s not going to happen, ok? we’re not here to discussthe pros and cons of campus carry, and should we have it or should we not have it. the legislaturehas already made that decision for us, and we are going to have it, and we’re goingto meet the requirements of the law, and that’s
what the policy will do.so some more specifics about the law, you know i said repetitiveness isn’t a bad thingsometimes when it’s an important, critical fact. the first bullet point is repetitive,it just tells you what campus carry is again. it allows for concealed handgun license holdersto carry a concealed handgun on or about their person while on campus. there are provisionsin the law that allow us to carve out what we are just calling, so we can chat aboutthem, “gun-free zones.†so the law does allow us, as a university community, to putin our policy areas in which concealed handgun license holders cannot carry. and very interested,once the presentation is done, in hearing your input about areas we should considerfor gun-free zones. this is really a consultative
process with faculty, staff and students.this is the second student forum, specific student forum we’ve had. we had one at discoverypark that was faculty, staff and students — students were involved in that one — andwe’ve heard some feedback, but i can tell you this: the committee, the task force hasn’tsat around the table yet and said, “these are the 12 places that are going to be gun-freezones.†we want to hear from you about what those options should be.but — always a but with something good like we get to have gun-free zones, some peoplethink that’s a good thing — but, the gun-free zones can’t be so broad that they nullifythe intent of the law. so we can’t make the gun-free zones so broad in applicationthat it prohibits a concealed handgun license
holder form carrying on campus. so the examplethat i’ve used is classrooms. we couldn’t say that all classrooms on campus are gun-freezones because then that doesn’t allow concealed handgun license holders from carrying, fromgoing to class, it prevents them from going to class, and it prohibits our faculty whomay be chl holders from going to classes as well. it’s just too broad. so we have tobe very strategic in identifying these areas, and as you’ll see in a minute, we have tobe able to justify why we’ve carved out these gun-free zones. middle part that i missedin the second bullet point is that we will have to give effective notice of these gun-freezones. couple slides ahead, that’s the effective notice. so kind of like sometimes when youwalk into bars and places it will say, “guns
aren’t allowed here,†same kind of thing.so any areas we carve out on campus, by aug. 1, 2016, we will have to provide people witheffective notice that they cannot carry their concealed handgun in this building, if it’sa building, or in this area of a building, if it’s an area of a building, etc. ok?so after doing what we’re doing today, this is now the fifth town hall meeting. we havetwo remaining with faculty, one tomorrow, one on thursday. after this consultation process,we also have a website, campuscarry.unt.edu, that has a “share your thoughts†form.so that information is coming to the committee as well. we also have an email address, campuscarry@unt.edu.we’re getting input from the email address as well. all of that information goes to the23 members of the task force. after we take
all of this together, we are then going todraft the policy that i’ve said goes to the president for review in the middle ofdecember. also, the requirements, we’re just covering the requirements of the law.requirements of the law also allow for provisions and rules to be established regarding residencehalls. we’ll answer any questions you may have about that during the question and answertime, but we do have a subcommittee of our task force comprised of student affairs, housing,unt pd, risk management, etc., that are really taking that on. what are we going to do withresidence halls and chl holders that live in our residence halls? and again about theredundancy, bold, effective date, effective date is aug. 1, 2016, so it doesn’t existright now, it is not in effect until next
year.that’s the effective notice i’ve already shown. just a few other things regarding theprocedural process, one i’ve already mentioned. it goes to the board of regents for finalapproval. they can make any amendments they want to. those amendments are final. so infebruary 2016, we will have our campus carry policy for unt, and we will know what thatis. we will then share it with everyone. so we’re required by law to publish it, togive it to staff and students and employees and faculty. we are required to put it onour institution’s webpage so you will have it. and then sept. 1, 2016, every two yearsthereafter, we have to basically provide a report to the state legislature that says,“these are our gun-free zones,†and justify
each one. that’s why we have to be strategicin what we identify as our gun-free zones, because we have to report that every two years.just some additional things, so these items aren’t part of the law, it’s just someadditional items that we’ve picked up in conversations, so we’ve integrated intothe powerpoint presentation. unt cannot revoke the right of a chl holder to carry on campus.revocation and suspension is all done by the texas department of public safety. that’stheir responsibility. we have no say in that whatsoever, that is handled by dps. once thelaw is effective — everybody knows when it’s effective, right? aug. 1, 2016, yeah,i’ll keep saying it. once it’s effective, there are still going to be two criminal actsrelated to chl holders. and that is basically,
showing their weapon in plain view. so, it’sa concealed handgun, but if it is exposed in plain view that will be a criminal actand the unt police department can take action on that. or, if the chl holder enters a gun-freezone, in which effective notice has been given, that will also still be a criminal act andunt pd can take action. i’ve already mentioned about open carry, but just again to clarify,because when we started these town halls there was a lot of concern about open carry. opencarry will not happen on campus. that is the exposing of a weapon in a holster, just likea police officer does. it does become law in texas, so you’ll probably see it at krogerafter jan. 1, 2016, but you will not see it on this campus, because as it says, the lawspecifically excludes institutions of higher
education from open carry. the last thingthat i think is important before we move on to the next part on concealed handgun licenseholders is that unt cannot require a chl holder to self-identify. the only entity that canrequire somebody to self-identify as a chl holder is the police. so, me as a supervisor,as the chair of a department, can’t ask my faculty, “are you a chl holder? are youa chl holder?†they are not required to self-identify, and we don’t have the legalauthority to require them to do so. so that’s the campus carry requirements.now we’re going to kind of tunnel into what we know about chl holders, because that’swhat the law specifically applies to. so the first thing is i’m going to kind of runthrough a laundry list of chl requirements,
and basically the bottom line is this, isthat there’s a detailed, lengthy process to get a chl, and my summation of what you’regoing to see in the next three powerpoint slides very quickly is that chl holders areexceedingly law abiding citizens because they have to be to, one, get the license, and two,to keep the license, because, as i said, dps has the right to revoke it and to suspendit. first rule, you’ve got to be 21 years of age. so 21 years of age is the minimumage limit to get a chl. you go through a classroom training, you go through a written exam, yougo through basically a shooting proficiency exam. you also, all the training that is doneto get a chl must be done by a dps, department of public safety, certified instructor. andthen there’s all these rules about criminal
activity. so, never been convicted of a felony,haven’t been convicted of a class a or b misdemeanor in the past five years. so ifyou know about the categorization of our offenses in this state, the only thing lower than thatis a class c misdemeanor, and that’s a finable only offense. basically, that’s what youget a ticket for. so, b’s and above pretty much cover everything. so you can’t havehad any criminal activity, a and b misdemeanor in the last five years, no convictions, andthen, you can’t currently be charged with an a or b misdemeanor, or under felony indictment,and that’s part of that suspension process. if somebody does get arrested for a dwi, dpsclearly will know about that, and they can suspend the license because you’ve beencharged with a misdemeanor offense. not a
fugitive from justice. that would to me seemto make sense, can’t have a chl if you’re a fugitive from justice. and then that fontgets really, really small, but not a chemically dependent person, gotta be able to exercisesound judgment in the proper use and storage of the handgun, no misrepresentation on theapplication process, dps does a background investigation, and then it says for furtherinformation, you know, this website. but basically, this is just kind of the thumbnail of it.it’s actually quite complex and there’s a lot of rules, and we just don’t have timeto go into all of those rules. but if you’re interested in the eligibility/ineligibilityfactors, all i do is this. i know the website is there, but i just go into google and put“texas department of public safety concealed
handgun license,†and poof, the websitepops up with all the rules, etc. so, that’s kind of the summation of thatis, it’s a fairly intense process to get a chl. second thing is, as i mentioned atthe beginning, is that chl holders are exceedingly law abiding citizens. have to be to get thelicense, have to be to maintain the license. what do we know about them? a few slides onthat. we know about 3 percent of texas residents have a chl. so it’s about 3 percent of thepopulation has a chl. most of them are older. 86 percent of them are over 30, about two-thirdsof them are over 40. it’s unlikely for, you have to be 21 at a minimum, but it’sunlikely for someone in their 20s to have a chl. most people are over the age of 30.so we pulled conviction data. texas dps, same
website i mentioned before, just google “texasdepartment of public safety concealed handgun license,†all of this information is there.they track convictions of chl holders, produce a report every year. i know it says 2013,but i’m a criminal justice professor, welcome to criminal justice, we’re usually runningtwo years behind on stats, that’s just the way criminal justice operates on publishedstatistics. so this is the, when i built the powerpoint two weeks ago, 2013 is all that’sout there, it may be up now, 2014, but this is what we’ve got. so, what it basically,what dps basically does is they track all criminal convictions in the state of texas,and in 2013 what that pie chart says basically is there were about 51,000 criminal convictions,so that’s all of our offenses. 51,000 criminal
convictions in the state of texas in 2013,and 158 of them, or about one third of one percent of them, were chl holders. again,point, not likely to commit criminal activity, not in comparison to the remainder of thepopulation. people’s greatest concern, from what i have heard, is regarding an increasein violent acts on campus. whether that’s active shooter situations, or just violentacts that occur and assaults, etc. and so, i put this slide together, taking that convictiondata, in criminal justice when we talk about violent crime, we use typically an fbi definition,and it involves around four offenses: murder, sexual assault, robbery and assault/aggravatedassault. and that’s basically what you see there with the addition of terroristic threat.what this shows is total convictions for the
entire state in 2013. there were 13,746 convictionsfor those violent offenses. so that total convictions column adds up to 13,746. howmany of those convictions were chl holders? 31. so, 0.225 percent of them. so again, mymessage to people is that they’re not, chl holders are very, very unlikely to commita violent offense. why do i say that? well, first, the data shows that. the data on criminalconvictions for violent offense in this state shows that they are exceedingly unlikely tocommit a violent offense. what do we think is going to happen at unt?well, first we kind of want to know how many do we have? they’re not going to self-identify.we can’t make them self-identify. so we’ve got about 42,000 people — 37,000 students,5,000 employees, roughly. 42,000 people, find
that 3 percent standard, we’re probablytalking about 1,260 chl holders at unt currently, fall 2015 numbers, using fall 2015 numbers.we are taking a particular look at the residence halls. as i mentioned, we have a subcommitteeon that. we’ve got over 6,000 students living in our residence halls this semester, only500 of them are 21. so only 500 of them meet the minimum eligibility requirement. there’sstill all the other stuff about no felonies and all that, but just to give you an idea,there’s only 500 students that are 21 or over that currently live in our residencehalls. with the data that we used before, 86 percent of chl holders are 30 years ofage or older, we really don’t expect very many people at all to be living in our residencehalls who are chl holders. now, we can talk
when it’s question time and stuff aboutwhat options we’re looking at, but from a numbers standpoint, it’s probably goingto be very few people that have a chl and are living in one of our residence halls.campus carry is new, chl is not. so the ability to carry a concealed handgun has been lawin this state since 1997, so we’ll just round it off and say about 20 years it’sbeen law. and so we asked unt pd to look through their records and see if there had been anycases of chl holders violating the law. in other words, chl holders bringing their weaponsonto campus when they’re not allowed to because campus carry doesn’t exist. accordingto that, as that says there’s no cases of chl holders committing a criminal violationby bringing their weapons onto campus, all
the way back to 1997. the last thing we’regonna talk about, then i’ll open it up to questions and comments, is that we’re notalone. we’re one of eight states that have campus carry. we’re the most recent state.so every state university in the state of texas is grappling with this issue of campuscarry this year. but other states have had it, and colorado has had it the longest. theyhave had it since 2003, and so we looked at some data from their two large state universities,colorado state, which is smaller than us but still has a little over 30,000 students, soa large state university, they’ve had campus carry since 2003. they report no incidentsof a chl holder either displaying or discharging their weapon. colorado boulder, the big cucampus, reported one incident, and it involved
an employee at the dental school, who wasshowing her weapon to a colleague, and it accidentally discharged, and then she wassubsequently fired. so 12-year period, two major state universities, and one incident,that incident being an accidental discharge. so we have that kind of data to rely on aswell, to kind of determine how much of an impact this is going to have at unt.you being here means you’re interested in this. so you’ve heard the presentation,we’re going to open it up and engage in a dialogue, and answer your questions andaddress your comments, but i also want you to know, it doesn’t end today because wehave a campuscarry.unt.edu website. we’re trying to make this process as transparentas possible. we’re holding these town hall
meetings. we’re video recording them, they’relive streamed, plus they’re being recorded so that others can see them if they aren’tavailable to sit in front of a computer right now and watch it, so they can see what isgoing on. we will be providing updates on the committee’s actions as we proceed towardsour dec. 15 deadline to get the draft policy to president smatresk. we will be providingthose updates via the website, so check that out. also, if you don’t get all of yourcomments out today, or all of your questions out today, or if you’re like me and thestroke of genius occurs at 2 o’clock in the morning and you’re like, “who am isupposed to tell?†well, we’ve got two ways. on the website is a “share your thoughtsâ€link, click on it, fill out the form, it goes
to the 23 members of the task force for review,so you’ll always be able to utilize that link. or send an email to campuscarry@unt.edu,again, share your thoughts, that information will go to the committee as well. thank youfor listening to me. i’m officially done, so now it’s, i’m ready to hear from you,and answer any questions you have, any comments. if it’s something that’s better for othermembers of the task force to answer, then we’ll address it to them. and mo mcguinnesssnuck in, she’s on the task force as well, she is the dean of students, and christopherlee snuck in too, he’s from the student government association. so, they’re hereas well. yes sir? first off, i’m a law abiding citizen. i’man alumni here at unt. i graduated here summer
of 2010 with a bachelor’s degree in sociology.unfortunately, i have not been able to get a job with that degree. and my biggest concernis, if you allow people to carry guns around the college campus in fall of next year ifthey have a chl license, unless they all these 20 year olds that are at least 21 decide todo this, how do you know none of them have mental issues, none of them are going to havea bad day to where they lose their girlfriend, lose their job and have a bad day at school,and they don’t take the gun and decide to kill some teachers to get revenge and somestudents, how do you know that’s not going to happen? that’s my biggest concern.right. i don’t think aug. 1, 2016, is going to change that. because we face that today.i mean, if unt is a microcosm of society,
there’s guns on this campus right now. nooffense, lt. owen, but there’s guns on this campus right now. and we deal with studentsthat have emotional issues, that have crises in their lives, that have mental health issues,etc. we have a care team, that mo mcguinness can speak to more eloquently than i can, thatis in place to take care of those situations and to really rally the resources around thatperson that is facing a time of need. that’s really not going to change. those processesand procedures are still in place today. i think your concern is, is there going to bean increase in weapon availability then, with the chl holders being able to bring theirweapons onto campus. i mean, clearly, college life is stressful, it’s also a lot of fun,but it’s certainly stressful, and we have
safety and security training, we even haveactive shooter training, we have a care team that is in place to assist students that arein need, and i’ve used them as a faculty member. i’ve called them up and said, “look,this is what’s going on with this student, i think you need to reach out to him,†andtrust me, they jump right on it and they reach out to that student and try to assist them.you know, but from a chl standpoint, all the data and evidence that i would have and thati presented, is that it’s extremely unlikely that if somebody uses a weapon against somebodyon this campus, that that person is a chl holder. i would, all the evidence points,to me, that it’s not a chl holder. yeah, but if you’re going to allow peopleat least 21 years old to become a chl holder,
and one of these people, you don’t knowtheir background or what’s going on in their life, suddenly decides to use that gun, that’smy biggest concern. that’s a college student on campus. i mean, how do you know that’snot going to happen? i mean, we don’t. we don’t know that it’snot going to happen. and you said “we.†we didn’t enact this law, and we’re notallowing chl holders to be 21 to carry handguns. that’s all decided by the legislature. chlhas existed for almost 20 years now. campus carry was passed by the legislature. so thisis not something we chose to do, this is something that has been imposed upon unt and all stateuniversities, and what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to craft a policy that meetsthe intent of the law, because we’re going
to abide by the requirements of the law, butalso takes into account the safety and security and the concerns of our students.do you want to say anything regarding that? i just wrapped that all up. i’ve heard youtalk, i mean i’ve heard you say that, so i, all right. yes, sir? oh, i’m sorry. yes,ma’am. so, i read up on the previous town hall meeting.i wasn’t able to attend that, and i know that some of the gun-free zones that weresuggested by some of the attendees were, you know, chestnut, mcconnell and other residencehalls, but are we also looking at like the union and willis, and like those really bigstudent hubs where students go, will go to study in regards to the union, and do study24 hours at willis.
we are looking at, we are compiling a list.so we are looking at everything which a student has mentioned. union has been mentioned, butto my knowledge willis has not been mentioned before. so it will go on the list. you maybe wondering, “well, he’s not taking notes. how are we going to know that?†we’vegot the tape, we’re going to go through it, people are transcribing it, we’re creatingthe list to consider, and then it’s the responsibility of the committee, the 23-membercommittee, to then look at those places that have been discussed by our campus communityand identify the criteria we want to establish to create those gun-free zones. and so, yes,the union’s been mentioned, willis has not, but it’s on the list now to be looked at.all right, thank you for letting me speak.
i kind of have a two-part question, if that’sok with you. yes, you may have to do one at a time becausemy head can usually handle one at a time, but we’ll give it a shot. i mean, i maysay, “can you repeat the second part?†i’m sorry. it’s just the way my head works.my first question would have to precede the second, so it has to do kind of building offthat gentleman back there’s question. certainly, college is a very stressful time of life inthat every student at some point goes through some kind of crises, more or less, comparedto others, and that brings in factors not only affecting mass shooter situations, butalso things like suicide, which the risk of a student committing suicide is exponentiallyincreased while during college. these are
crucial years, and so, of course we have awonderful health and wellness center in order to help students cope with adjusting to collegelife, and getting over these personal issues, so is it possible for the health and wellnesscenter to cooperate with available state departments that issue chl potential candidates, or wouldprivacy laws kind of prevent us from cooperating and determining who would be more or lessin danger of harming themselves or others by obtaining a handgun?i think i know the answer, but does somebody definitely know the answer? because then i’lllet you make sure. hipaa, right? but, you want to say it? yeah. hipaa laws, privacyregarding health records, mental health included, are restricted, so therefore they cannot beshared with the texas department of public
safety. and that’s one of the challengesthat we face. they cannot know, we cannot share that information with them. correct?i have one last question. the child care center – no, this is totally unrelated – thechild care center is at the absolute top of the list for being a gun-free zone, right?you guys have already thought about that, right?child development lab, definitely. we heard it at the very first. actually, i think iused it as an example to kind of get the conversation started, but the child development lab, sinceit’s a day care center, has definitely been put on the list of things to consider.all right, and one last follow up question regarding the places that may or may not bepotential gun safety zones, i believe that
it was the current, or maybe he’s the formernow, president of the university of texas, former adm. william mcraven, i believe, spearheaded– chancellor.chancellor. oh, fancy title. big, big dog. yeah.so he is the one who spearheaded the entire operation behind bin laden, just as some backgroundinformation, i believe he actually made a statement regarding this law once it takeseffect, saying that he believes that it will actually inhibit the right to free speech,the first amendment, as we are all well aware of, and saying that it would inhibit diversethought and opinions, especially in classes where discourse is tantamount to the curriculumsuch as political science or other classes
where debating ideas and beliefs is just simplypart of the education system. and if you do or do not have a gun, it may prevent someonefrom speaking their mind, at least to some extent, and so, although we said that we cannotmake every classroom a gun-free zone, and that makes sense, but can some classroomsbe gun-free zones? specifically ones that are at a higher risk for having heated discussions,such as that. this has been brought up, and i appreciateyour comment. it was brought up in a previous session, so we’ve put it on the list ofthings to consider. you know, we have to, we as a committee, and then the president,and then the board of regents, and all of us are also interacting with the office ofgeneral counsel, our legal counsel here on
campus, to figure out what we can and cannotdo. we have to be able to balance, you know, what is transpiring within that classroom,with a chl holder’s right by law to carry on campus. and, then the question becomes,how broad are those restrictions? how many classes are we talking about? because if they’refew in number, it may be possible, but if there’s a lot of them, then it may be muchmore difficult to be able to implement because, again, as we discussed, we can’t put somethingin place that’s so broad that it nullifies the intent of the law. but if there are certaincourses, few in number, particularly heated exchanges are known to occur, then that certainlycan be something that the committee can assess. thank you.thank you. yes, sir.
all right, my name is jacob. i’m obviouslya student here, i’m not a chl holder, and i would like to speak to her point, and alsohis point as far as how gun-free zones are relegated. if you actually read the law, thechild care center is a gun-free zone, from the law, it’s not something for unt to decide,but i believe, as a general student, meaning anything that every student uses, or everystudent has access to like willis or even the union, should not be a gun-free zone becausethen you impede on the chl holder’s rights. now, it is reasonable, say, if greek studentlife, or any group that has a legitimate group-centric building where they are the main users ofthat building to come to a democratic process and say, “hey†— i’m going to usethe greek student center as an example just
because they are a subsection of the unt population— if all the fraternities and sororities come together and say, “hey, we want greekstudent life and our building to be a gun-free zone,†then absolutely. they are the primaryusers of that building, they wanted it that way, so then yes, they should be able to havethat designated as a gun-free zone. but, as a person who, i don’t have a chl, but ifi did have a chl, why should i not be allowed to go into willis library if i have met allof the requirements of the law because someone feels anxious about it? when the point ofthe chl is you wouldn’t know that i have a firearm. so if it’s something that’sgeneral access, like say, the registrar’s office or the eagle student services center,it shouldn’t be a gun-free zone because
then you inhibit the rights of the studentswho have chosen to go through the process of getting a chl. you inhibit their rights,which goes against the intent of the law. and i mean, i feel that that fills the voidof, you know, what should be and shouldn’t be a gun-free zone or not. it’s not reallya question, it’s a statement, but. no, no, it’s a comment, but thank you. thankyou. ok, well mine wasn’t a question, it’sjust like an observation. so on one of the charts you had where it said, like, the crimesthat were committed, how many of the total population, and how many of the chl holderscommitted, i think it would be, although the argument, not really the argument, but foryou to say that the amount of convictions
of chl users, like, were less than the totalpopulation, i mean it’s kind of expected since there’s, i think you said there wasonly 3 percent of the total population here in texas that has them, so it’s, like, it’sobvious that it’s going to be less of them so it’s going to seem like, you know, i’mnot saying they’re not good people, i mean there are some that are good people, wellthe majority of them are, um, but it was just like an observation that i had that of courseit’s going to seem like a less amount of number of people who have the chls that aregonna commit crimes because there’s not that many of them to begin with.right, and in showing that slide what is intended to be, i guess, illustrated by it is thatif it was proportionate, if chl holders committed
criminal activity at the same level as non-chlholders, if 3 percent of the texas population has a chl, you would expect 3 percent of thecriminal convictions to also be chl holders. and what that shows, is 3 percent chl holders,but 0.225 percent are involved in a violent criminal conviction. so it’s disproportionate.that’s what this is intended to show. you’re exactly right, you would expect it to be smaller,but it’s still substantially smaller than that 3 percent representation in the community.thank you. for the special populations that are goingto be minors, like the tams students and obviously the child lab, would there be any considerationto actually have some metal detector, or do we have budget for that? i mean, is that somethingthat’s possible through the law?
i think under the law it is possible. thechief of police is not here, that question has come up in prior forums, and he has saidthat for particular high risk events, metal detectors, primarily wands, are used at thoseevents, but he does not foresee — again, i’m speaking for him, he’s not here, buti think i’m getting it right — he does not foresee access into buildings, etc., havingmetal detectors on them, because that building’s been deemed to be a gun-free zone. part ofit is the expense of it, and the labor intensity of having to staff metal detectors, etc. butwe currently do, and continue, and will continue to do wanding type of thing at the high-riskevents. for like big events at the library mall andstuff like that?
at high-risk events.like high-risk events like university day at the library mall? i’m confused, likewhat is that? he never gave an example. do you have an example?i don’t have. he’s never provided an example when anyone’s ever asked, he just referredto them as particularly high-risk events. ok.the most common thing would be like any time there’s a public speaker that is nationallyprominent. oh, like distinguished lecture series? ok,great. that has secret service protection or departmentof defense protection. those, by contract, we have to provide additional security. andthen there’s other things like particular
parties, things like that that we do.and my second question is, is there room in the law to update — because i know therewas some talk about like serving alcohol in the union, so, you know, that’s cool, butis there a way to, are there chances to update the law as our buildings come up, and as otherbuildings get used for different purposes? so the law is the legislature’s responsibility.so, every two years, they can do whatever they want to with it. but from our standpoint,we have asked the office of general counsel who is helping us draft the policy, that wewould like to see the ability to have the designation of a gun-free zone to grow overtime as buildings get built. a building that’s being used for purpose x today, is used forpurpose y in two years. we believe we need
a procedure in place that makes the law moredynamic, or our policy, not the law so much, but the policy dynamic, so that as thingschange, we can make changes to those gun-free zones. because what’s going to happen inthe policy is that here’s the list of the gun-free zones. that should not be stagnant.it needs to change. and for example, you mentioned the child development lab. the child developmentlab, some have said that, yes, the lab, but then some have also said in these meetings,you know, the entire building, because children are running around. well, darlene callahan,the space management person for the university, was here and said sometime soon the childdevelopment lab is being taken out of matthews hall, and being moved over to mean green villagein one of the isolated buildings by itself.
so that’s a change. so right now, we wouldneed a gun-free zone there, but then that’s going to change because the child developmentlab is going to move to a new location. so we have to have a dynamic process, and whateverthat procedure is to designate an area “gun-free,†even though it’s not on the original list,we’ve requested that to be included in the policy.ok. thank you. and also, thank you for hosting these, again, because they’re awesome.ha ha, thank you. yes sir. [inaudible]so we have, we’ve heard the comment before and so the issue for the task force that idon’t have an answer to, the issue for the task force to take under consideration ishow do we, how do we provide avenues for people
to securely, basically to secure their weaponbefore they go into a gun-free zone. we’ve heard it most from staff. so like facilitiesstaff that say, “i run around campus all day long into different buildings, what ami supposed to do?†custodial staff has brought it to our attention, now you as a studentare bringing it to our attention. we have to grapple with that. i don’t know if we’retalking, you know, gun lockers in particular locations. i know some universities, again,we’re not the first to ever do this, some universities do have that where people cansecure their weapons. most likely what, if those aren’t provided, then it does become,you go and take it to your vehicle in order to secure it. but we know it’s an issue,we know it’s a topic to address. we haven’t,
we’re in still the consultative time, we’regathering the ideas, then we’ve got to sit around, all 23 of us have got to sit around,we’ve got to hammer out these issues and figure out what’s doable, you know, if itis a budget issue, if it becomes some infrastructure thing we have to have, how much is it gonnacost, do we have the funding for that, all that kind of stuff. that will go with thepackage. it’s kind of like the policy, but then also then the cost of the implementationof the policy. because part of this, also, besides just the securing of the firearmsis that we need to, besides just — it’s like you said, not everybody reads the policies,you know, it’s not just a matter of sending out the policy via email and posting it onthe website. we’re gonna have to do educational
and training seminars from orientation onthrough current students with faculty and with staff, and that takes time and it takesresources to be able to do it, so we plan on having, you know, along with the policythere will be some form of budget request, what’s required to implement the policy.[inaudible] because we provided a safe environment forthe students. yes. thank you. hi, me personally, i am not fond of guns.i’m ok with it being police officers, military is different. i am very afraid of guns. so,i was wondering, have any studies been done on psychological effects of there being gunsin a place where people are used to being safe and secure away from crazy people?i’m not aware of any, but that certainly
doesn’t mean there haven’t been studiesdone. it’s just not my core area of research, so i’m not sure of any. i know that whatwe have looked for is studies regarding campus carry specifically, and i feel pretty confidentin saying a study of the type you’re talking about applying specifically to campus carrydoes not exist. now, whether or not others have done research to look at the psychologicaleffects of the presence of guns on people that have inhibitions towards guns, i wouldassume that research has been done, it just is a matter of the locations in which they’vedone them. oh, yes, of course you can join in. you don’t even have to ask.yes. and that’s not my area of research either, but i will tell you a couple of things.we need to remember with this law, you should
not know there’s a gun in your classroom.you should not know you’re sitting in the cafeteria with a gun. ok? but, i also wantto make sure, a lot of times things have been brought up in regards to mental health, andwe’ve heard the question, “guns on campus may trigger my ptsd. guns on campus may makeme more anxious to go to class, whether i know there’s a gun there or not.†andso know some of the things that we already have in place: the care team, we have somebodyon call every day, we see students every day for students in crisis, whether it’s suicidalideation, anxiety, bipolar disorder, all of these different things that you’re continuingto bring up, and get them in and get them help. but i think, too, another piece thiswill come, the education piece that will come
forward after we pull out the policy. andi think some of the things that we’re talking about in education is, do we have a group?do we have sessions where we kind of address the issue of, “oh, there’s going to bea gun in my classroom. i’m concerned about that. that’s going to trigger things�and so, we have a number of groups for counseling and testing, maybe that’s something we lookinto. and so know that a lot of things that come out of these sessions as well are goingto help our education piece, and i think that we have to look at that. so we’ve heardthe issue of ptsd a lot in regards to guns, and what that does for different people, andso know know that that’s something we’re definitely continuing to look into. ok?i guess i have one question and two comments.
and the question is: the slide where you had3 percent of the 42,000 for the unt population, was 42,000 just the sum of all the studentsand faculty and staff, or did that account for people who by demographics, namely age,are ineligible to have a chl? it is everybody together, so we didn’t,it’s basically our 37,000 students, we have a little bit more this semester, and our 5,000faculty and staff and employees basically is what that is combined to get to 42,000.so we did not subtract out under 21, it’s just 42,000 overall.ok, so that’s pretty bound to be an overestimate. so the number is high, you are correct.ok. my two comments would be how i would like to see the university handle, particularlyin the residence halls, for the storage, the
safe storage, of handguns. i think the universityshould provide a means to attach a safe to the floor, to the wall, whatever logisticallyworks, and then set the financial burden upon the chl holder to provide the safe, and securelyattach it to the mounting device. you know, the university could set minimum standardsfor the safes, and that would help alleviate at least the budgetary concerns for the residencehalls, i think. my other comment was, as far as just general locations that i think shouldbe gun-free zones, i think that it needs to be severely restricted on where those gun-freezones are. the gentleman in the back, when he was talking about the sorority, the greeklife center and stuff, 100 percent support his comments. the child development lab isa reasonable place where you have kids running
around. the only other locations that i cancome up with off the top of my head that might be legitimately considered for gun-free zoneswould be maybe where volatile chemicals are being handled or stored, such as chemistrylabs, you know. otherwise, i think that as is the case with virtually anywhere else inthe state, you know, chl holders need to be able to carry on campus. that’s what thelegislature and the governor did for us this past legislative session.ok, thank you. just a couple of comments to yours. we have heard, and it is on the list,labs that have flammable chemicals and stuff in them, certainly we’ve heard. regardingthe residence halls, i just want to kind of explain what we’ve seen other states do,doesn’t mean this is what we’re doing,
because we have a subcommittee and we’reengaging in this process, then we’re going to decide what to do. but one thing is thatstates that have had campus carry in place, single occupancy rooms are required. it becomescomplicated because then they have to self-identify in a way, if you’re going to require themto have a hotel safe, but that’s the second thing that states have done, is that they,i don’t know if the student purchases or the university, but they put hotel safes ina number of rooms, and then require the student to secure the weapon, the handgun, in thesafe at all times in which they are in the residence hall. because there was concernfrom staff, in one of the staff ones that work in housing about students you know, thatare in residence halls that may leave in on
top of their desk while they go to a bathroomand then another kid, because there’s an adjoining bathroom, comes in. that’s whatsome states have done, is they put the hotel safes, and it has to be in there while you’rein your residence hall. the third thing that some states have done is a centralized location,usually at the police department, that you go and check it in and check it out. so inother words, you can’t have it in the residence halls. so that’s kind of the gamut of whatother states have done. we know that, and then we’re kind of just going to tailorsome of those practices to meet the needs of unt. but thanks for your comments. yes,sir. under what circumstances will chl holdersbe allowed to draw their weapon, and will
safety reports be analyzed in each situation?and why don’t chl holders have to identify themselves?it’s kind of like this gentleman, you asked three questions and so now my head’s like,“that’s too many questions,†at once. so i’m going to go backwards, because thatwas the first one. i have no idea, except it’s in the law. does anybody have any ideaof why they don’t have to self-identify? i mean, they have to identify to the police.that’s required. so, lt. owen can ask you and you have to respond, but me as professorand chair of criminal justice, you don’t have to respond to me. i’m not sure, it’sin the legislation, but i don’t know why they did that. this gentleman knows.this started off in the state of florida,
i’ve actually done a lot of research onthe topic of firearms and concealed carry. the whole purpose of concealed carry is anonymity.in the state of florida, which was the very first state in the united states to implementconcealed carry, they did, they monitored every statistic possible. the idea of concealedcarry is anonymity. the criminal is not supposed to know who might be able to resist. so, that’sone of the reasons for the concealed carry is somebody feels vulnerable, you have a womanwho is a sexual assault victim, she vows she never wants to be a victim again, so she takesit upon herself to go through courses and things like that, and place the extra burdenupon herself to be able to protect herself. that’s on her. and the idea is, she getssome comfort from it, she also has the ability
to protect herself should an assailant comeat her again. but the purpose of concealed carry is you’re not supposed to know it,but the criminal goes, “ok, somebody in this area might be resistant to me. i needto go find a different hunting ground.†ok. very good, thank you. so, anonymity isthe reason. regarding the under what circumstances can they draw their weapon? i’ve heard theresponses from chief reynolds in previous sessions, and from concealed handgun licenseholders in previous sessions, so this is my understanding of it is that basically whenthey’re in fear of serious bodily injury or death for themselves or for someone else,then by law, under our self-defense law, they have the ability to brandish the weapon andtake action. regarding the safety report — see,
i remembered all three of them and that’spretty amazing because i can usually only hold two things in my head at a time. butthe safety report things, i haven’t, i haven’t seen it where we’d ask for it to be includedin the policy where a safety report is issued, but, you know, i’m thinking that any timein which that event occurs, in which there is a weapon drawn on campus, 911’s goingto get flooded and so there’s going to be a report. i just can’t think of a time wherethere wouldn’t be. so i don’t think we’re really probably going to put something likethat in the policy regarding the need for safety reports, because i think everything’sgoing to funnel to unt pd. they’re going to know that somebody drew their weapon inthe chemistry building and they’re going
to come and check it out.well, and we already have to abide by a federal law called the cleary act. and the clearyact, in one of the sections, is both arrests and student referrals for those that havesome kind of illegal weapon. and even if you have a chl and you use it inappropriatelyon campus, it would still be a violation of the law. and so that comes out oct. 1 of everyyear, and you would see those numbers as well. anything else you want to add to that?i’ll just say one thing. don’t look at me. i said everything i knew.i was just going to piggyback on that. there’s probably a crime that has probably occurred,either by the person that caused the threat or the person responding to the threat, acrime has probably occurred, like dr. fritsch
said. there are probably some extreme examplesthat wouldn’t fit into that. but a huge chunk of the time a crime’s going to occurand the police are going to be called whether it’s the person brandishing or the personthat’s the threat that the person’s brandishing to.and so then there will be a public record of it. there will be a document. it will bedocumented. and if you ever have that situation, you needto call the police. don’t let that, you don’t want to forget that step.yes, sir. james, a student. as we know, having a chlcomes with great responsibility. and then, you know, school can be stressful and veryhard at times. should there be a refresher
course, like 75 percent into the semester,reminding students about their great responsibility of having a chl, with all the added stressand forgetting about their responsibility of having a chl?we can certainly put it under consideration. you’ve stumped me on my fifth town hallmeeting. i haven’t heard that as of yet. you know, because we get — how it wouldwork is that it would have to come from the provost, finley graves, as a statement tothe faculty to say, “please announce in class this, this and this,†which we get.and we get reminders about what we as faculty can and can’t do during pre-finals week.like all of a sudden we can’t just have a brand-new paper due, you know, during pre-finalsweek. so there’s those rules. so to me it
kind of fits into that. it fits into, reallyfrom an academic affairs standpoint, does the provost in consultation with the deanswant to send reminders out to faculty. because, i do at least and i would say the facultylargely are going to do what is requested of them. so if there’s evidence to supporta request nearing finals time of chl and responsibility plus resources available if particularly stressfultimes, etc., then that’s definitely doable. i’ve actually heard some universities talkingabout, you know, these gun-free zones? you know some of them can be temporary and somehave actually talked about finals week and just not allowing them during finals week,because of the stress. we haven’t heard that in our forums but i’ve heard it fromother schools. thank you. yes, sir.
just wanted to touch on two things. she mentionedearlier about alcohol possibly being in the union and everything like that. just for thosewho don’t know me, like i said i’ve done a lot of research and stuff in my previousmajor. any alcohol with the chl, you’re going to jail. it’s put down during trainingclasses, if you are inebriated, have any alcohol in your possession while you’re carryinga firearm, punishment’s triple, quadruple. you lose your license, massive fines and jailtime. also, if you ever look at bars and things like that you’ll see a sign that says 51percent. any establishment that makes 51 percent or more of its sales through the sales ofalcohol is an automatic no-go zone for concealed carry licensees and possession of firearms.same thing with like the 30.06. so, the big
thing about being with alcohol is, if a personis cognizant of their responsibilities as a chl, they’re not going to be there, they’renot going to be carrying their weapon while having access to alcohol.thank you. so, i just had a quick thing. someone hadmentioned policy earlier and then he mentioned something. and i was just wondering if itwas something that would be put into syllabi, because i know the disabilities act policygoes into our syllabi and i know most of my teachers even go over it or professors goover it at the beginning of the class. so would the concealed handgun policy or whateverbe put into syllabi and reminded so that students do know what they’re allowed to do and wherethey’re allowed to go and all those things.
if that’s been considered.no, no. good point. again, y’all are stumping me with this. hadn’t heard it before. imean, it’s definitely possible. it just is a matter of the committee taking it underconsideration. then really what that involves, it involves the provost because it falls underacademic affairs. he handles all the faculty and all the classes. and just like the adastatement that goes into the syllabi, there could be some language that is crafted thatone, could be mandatory, or two, which would probably be more likely or probably more easyto implement, is then optional for the faculty to just pop into their syllabi for those thatwant to discuss and make students aware about the campus carry law, where it’s located,etc. that’s a very good idea, thank you.
yes, sir.so my question is, if it’s put in the syllabi, and there are going to be people, both studentsand faculty, that are totally against concealed carry. and a, nobody should ever like yousaid know that you have your weapon on you, if you have a weapon on you, but if somethinghappens, i mean i’m an honest guy. i don’t care if you’re a police officer or anybodycomes up and asks me, “hey, do you have a concealed handgun license?†i’ll tellthem yes and if i’m carrying or not. because that could save them from thinking that theywant to say other stuff to me. so i really don’t care about the anonymity of it. but,if i get in an argument with a teacher on a policy that they’re talking about, andthey want to voice their opinion on how they
feel about the concealed handgun license carry,campus carry, and how it’s wrong and everything, is there going to be a policy set up to where,all of a sudden, no matter what i turn in, i’m failing this guy’s class because wedon’t see eye to eye on our policy thinking? is there going to be anything set up on thefaculty side of the house saying you know this is a discrimination if you find out somebody’sa concealed license carrier in your class and you don’t believe in it and there’sclassrooms set up that are non-carry classrooms and the teacher goes, “well, i want allmy classrooms like that,†and i have to take his class, because he’s the only professorthat teaches this? so, what’s going to be set up, how are we going to set up stuff forthe students’ protections, chl protection
and their rights? do not have this happen,because you can say because unt’s a good family, a strong family, personal opinion’snot going to matter, but it’s going to be involved in, you know, that decision and thatindividual’s thinking. you can’t not have it involved in how you teach a class and howyou act toward somebody else. all right, so a few things. in reference tothe comment about the syllabi, at least in my thought it was more of a standard statement.not a pro/con kind of statement. just a standardized statement, kind of like we have with the officeof disability accommodation statement that we have in the syllabi that just lets peopleknow. just like we do with cheating and plagiarism kind of stuff. we have a code of conduct soit would be just more of a blanket statement,
not pro/con. so with a couple of things thati think i need to or should respond to, and then if i didn’t answer everything completelylet me know, is that the gun-free zones are going to be determined or at least are goingto be initially drafted by the task force of 23 people. it’s going to go to the president.the president then is the president and has the latitude to do what he chooses and thenit goes to the board of regents. the board of regents then has the latitude to amendthe rules and once they amend the rules, those rules are final. once those gun-free zonesare established, faculty and staff, faculty in particular as you’re talking about, don’thave the ability to change those. so the faculty can’t make their classes gun free, and weget to have, you know the next two town halls
are with faculty — we haven’t had oneyet. i’m sure that will be discussed amongst them, because i’m sure some are wantingthat. that can’t happen. i mean the gun-free zones have to go into the policy. now we dowant the policy to be dynamic to where we can create temporary gun-free zones, so wehave hundreds of events on campus and maybe some event does need to be gun free, we wanta process in place to deem that. but as far as, you know, “i don’t like guns and i’mprofessor x and i don’t want them in my class and you can’t have them in my class,â€it can’t happen. if it does happen, it’s a violation of policy. that faculty memberhas violated the policy. and then there are processes and sanctions for violating universitypolicy. and so they’re not going to have
that flexibility. really the same goes withthem going after you because you have expressed a differing opinion. and from a faculty standpoint— and i’m chair of the department of criminal justice so i have 11 other faculty, and soas a supervisor i would encourage this among my faculty — is that we do engage in dialoguewith people, we discuss criminal justice issues and a lot of them are hot-button topics andgun control becomes one of those and the death penalty becomes another; is that you as afaculty member need to remain objective; is that my assessment of you needs to be an objectiveassessment of you. and so there should not be times in which just because you disagreewith me and i’m the faculty member i’m going to take it out on you. that’s notallowed today, and that’s not going to change
with the campus carry policy being implemented.it should not occur and there’s again policies and procedures in place to rectify and toreport those types of circumstances if they were to occur.ok. and my last part of that question is, say the buildings are going to be zone buildingsand all of a sudden my class got transferred into it, the building, classroom, becausethe other one we were in just didn’t function correctly, which occasionally happens here,classes move around. and say that’s right in the middle of my day, three days a week.and it’s the only class that i can take because it’s the only one offered for thatsemester. and i need it to graduate. what, it falls again along those lines, what ami going to end up doing with that weapon if
i’m parked over at the stadium and my classgot moved down here to the language building and i don’t have that 10 minutes becausei’m a slow walker, i’m an old guy, to go all the way to the stadium and make itback to that language class. it’s going to take me far longer than 10 minutes. so,what’s going to happen if that situation occurs like that, because i’m not supposedto self-identify, so one of my reasons why, i can’t really go to the campus police andsay, “hey, i’m a chl license holder and i’ve got a class in this building and ijust want to hand you my gun because i don’t really want to walk into the police stationwith my concealed handgun license, i mean my gun. i can walk in there with my licenseand show them my license, but walking into
a police station with a gun is kind of a stupidthing. and, we don’t have an answer for you. weknow it’s an issue. and, you know, it even goes to the concept of secured lockers. well,if you’re over there hanging out at the secured lockers, you’ve kind of self-identifiedyourself. so we’ve got to balance all that to figure out how’s the best to handle this.you know, you said the purpose of the law is anonymity, so how do we balance reallythese challenges that we’re going to face. i think the first thing that helps with thatis really identifying these gun-free zones. are we really talking about a significantamount of classrooms, or perhaps a building that may have a couple of classrooms in it?and then go from there of what we’re going
to have to do. and, you know, i would liketo think that — well, i do know, we’ve certainly provided the opportunity for everyoneto provide input, either in forums like this or through the website — but i would liketo think we’re going to get it perfect the first time, but there’s going to have tobe modifications. you know, you had referred to them as “loopholes.†hopefully they’renot substantial things, but there are things that we’re just not have going to addressedthat are going to have to be modified. policies are always amended to where we take that intoaccount. you know, “we forgot, we never thought about this. now this is occurring.what do we do regarding the policy regarding that particular issue?â€that’s, from my understanding, the law and
that’s part of why the two-year updates,sept. 1, on every even year, the same year that the legislature meets, is that’s whythey put that in there for universities to have that chance to update and amend, as needed.and my understanding of reading and reading the texas legislation site that has the lawon there and listening to some of the arguments and stuff, that’s kind of why they gavethe universities to put in there every two years to update your policy in writing, andthat gives you the chance to continuously, it’s a flowing policy it’s not a set-inpolicy. to continuously improve it. ok. thank you.it’s the quiet. all right, well a couple of things before we leave. first, thank youfor coming. i appreciate your time, your comments,
your questions, your input. trust me wheni say, the committee — i know we have a few members here, but the 23 of us overall— will take all that input into consideration, that’s why we’re doing these town hallsand why we’re recommending you fill out the webform, etc. the second thing is, likei’ve said before, it doesn’t end today. so, if you want to continue to be updated,the campus carry website, campuscarry.unt.edu, will be updated as we make progress. the timelineis the draft of that policy is going to go to president smatresk in the middle of december.also, if you have other thoughts that you want to share with us, either use that webform,“share your thoughts,†on the website, or just campuscarry@unt.edu and all that goesto all 23 members of our committee. other
than that, thanks for coming. i hope you havea great rest of your tuesday. appreciate it.
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